Women are increasingly emerging as financial leaders, not just in their households but also in the broader financial landscape. In this episode of The Life and Money Show, Annie and Susan discuss the exciting shift in financial decision-making from a traditionally male-dominated sphere to one where more women are taking the reins. Annie and Susan explore the impact of emotions and financial anxiety in money management. They also draw attention to finding a supportive community, embracing financial education, and emphasizing that the most important investment you’ll ever make is in yourself.
Three-Part Exercise for Managing Financial Anxiety
1. Fears: List all your fears related to a financial decision.
2. Opportunities: Write down all the positive possibilities that could result from the decision.
3. Strengths: List your strengths and why you are capable of making this decision.
Building Confidence in Financial Decisions
[00:20:54] But the information is out there. And so in many ways, the power has shifted. It's no longer with that one person who holds all the power and the wisdom, but it's in your own fingertips, and it's really about you taking the time to go and find the information.
[00:26:24] This transition, this wave will start to bring money into the light a little bit more, rather than in the dark corners where it's been for so many generations, but bringing it out into the open a little bit more…makes it not so scary of a topic. And it also makes us all feel a little bit less alone in the money worries and the money stresses that we may be experiencing.
[00:30:51] Because a big part of making your investment, your first investment—yeah, it's about the money—but really it's about investing in you, yourself, your own possibilities, your own skill set, your own knowledge, your own wisdom.
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Annie [0:04 - 0:10]: Hey, there. Welcome to this episode of the Life and Money show, brought to you by Goodag Investments. I'm Annie Dickerson.
Susan [0:10 - 0:13]: And I'm Susan Elliott. Annie, tell us what's on your mind.
Annie [0:13 - 1:55]: Oh, man. Today, I am feeling contemplative, because over the weekend, we just went to see inside out, too. Oh, my goodness. My kids were blown away. But there's one scene in the movie that I've been replaying in my head over and over because it's helping me to work out something with my own emotions and how I process things and see the world. So don't worry. For anybody who hasn't seen the movie, this isn't going to spoil it for you. This is just one lone scene in the whole movie. There's a few new emotions in inside out. Two, one of which is anxiety, and this is a big one. There's one part in the movie that you really get to see exactly how anxiety works. So joy and some of the other emotions, I think they're in imagination land. They're like, oh, this is cool. This is where the pillow forts are. And this is where this is. And that is. They're like, but wait, what's that little light over there? And they go into this, like, secret little area, this little secret fort, and they see it's set up almost like a call center with all these little minions working at their little cubicles. And up on the screen is anxiety from headquarters, and she's like, okay, we need more projections. We need more, more, more. And all these little minions down there, they're at their desks, and they're basically sketching up these potential scenarios of what could go wrong. Then the projections are projected up onto the screen, which goes into Riley, the main characters, into her I head. So anxiety's like, yeah, yeah, that's a good one. She could fail at this. She could fail at that. Yeah, keep it going. Keep it going.
Susan [1:55 - 1:55]: Oh, no.
Annie [1:55 - 2:17]: So it's all of these basically taking your imagination and turning it against you, and instead of using your imagination like we did as kids for all the playful things and building things, it's like, now taking that same power of imagination and turning it into something that's just, like, all the things that could possibly go wrong.
Susan [2:18 - 2:52]: Wow. Just the fact that it's housed in the imagination center. It's not housed in the fact truth center of our brain. No, no. Just like, we think anxiety is coming from that. Like, this is true. This is real. This could happen. It's like, wait, wait, wait. It's in the imaginations I feel like, as an adult, just seeing that, like, that's a mind blown moment of like, oh, wait a minute. The other stuff in the imagination zone is just fantastical. Like the cloud guys. I remember from the first one where they just, like, blew them away. And then it was like, oh, no, there goes the cloud guys. Or french fry for and stuff. But there's the anxiety right there too.
Annie [2:52 - 4:25]: Oh, yeah, I know. This is why I'm contemplative, because I'm still thinking about it. Because for me, my own personal experience of anxiety is often it comes up in the most blue sky of days when there's nothing going on. And I'm like, I should feel perfectly fine. And this anxiety comes up in me. I'm like, what is that about? And I think there's, like, this barrier between me and the anxiety. And it's like, what is it about? I don't even know. So just thinking about the projections, I'm like, oh, that's probably happening on some level, whether it's conscious or not. Like, my mind is probably creating those scenarios and either I'm suppressing them or burying them or I'm not connecting them in some way. But still they're creating this sense of dread inside me. And then what happens in the movie is so one of the little minions steps away. And then Joy comes in. Shes like, no, Riley needs some positive projections too. So shes like drawing things that are the hockey team winning or people high fiving her, people coming in for a group hug. Its combating that anxiety because then anxiety is like, wait a second. What are all these positive things? We need more negative things. And joeys like, no, we need good things. So in some way I'm like, oh, yeah, I do have some agency in this situation. When there's that sense of dread and anxiety, I can come in and I can bring in the positive possibilities as well.
Susan [4:25 - 4:30]: It's like training your inner joy sort of captain. Yeah, she's like the leader of the team.
Annie [4:30 - 4:31]: That's right.
Susan [4:31 - 4:49]: It's like a little person. Okay, joy, I need you to whip up some visualizations right now because anxiety is going crazy. But I had a question that came up. So when do you experience money anxiety? Is there any time in your daily kind of existence, your daily routines, that sort of thing, where money anxiety specifically comes up?
Annie [4:49 - 7:09]: Oh, money anxiety is something I've done a lot of work on. It's something that does come up for me fairly regularly. I would say anytime I'm spending money, I'm only a stone's throw away from my phone at all times. And I pull up my phone and suddenly I'm on Amazon trying to order something that maybe I need or don't need. And then I go through all the emotions. I'm like, do I really need this? Oh, maybe I don't. I need to save up for this. I feel guilty. I feel ashamed that I'm looking at this right now. So there's a lot. I think it's not just anxiety, but there's so much wrapped up in money and finances. And that's exactly what we're going to dive into today. And I'm curious to hear your perspectives on it, too. But before we dive in, just a quick reminder to the listener, we're so grateful you're here. If you're listening to this, you probably know that community is such a key component of building wealth and investing and learning about finances, which is everything we're going to talk about here on this show today. But if you're looking for a community to help you to learn and to grow and to invest, particularly in real estate, which is what we focus on, you are invited to join the good egg investor club. It's a community of people just like you who are looking to build wealth for their families through investing passively in real estate. To do that, you can go to good egg investments.com invest. All right. With that, Susan, let's dive into the core of our conversation today, which is a huge topic. We're talking about this huge wealth transfer, this transition of money from traditionally a male dominated world of finances and money to where more and more women are taking the lead, taking the reins, taking the control in finances and money both within their households as well as personally. And it's a huge, huge shift. So I just wanted to ask you first and foremost, have you seen this out in the world? Have you heard about this with friends, with family? How has it impacted your life?
Susan [7:10 - 8:55]: I think as I've become a financial adult, which is a great term, I think we need to embrace more. And it took me through my twenties, which I think is probably pretty normal, to realize, oh, I have to, like manage this, I have to get on top of this. And I think as I've done that, I got married. I am for sure the CFO of our family. I'm training my husband up on the accountant position. It's open for jobs, so he's doing a lot of that stuff. But I'm the one making the high level decisions and we just defaulted into that because I'm the one that thinks in that way. And as I talk to more of my friends, it turns out that a lot of the females, at least in sort of a heterosexual relationship, are the ones that are thinking about finances or that are managing their money in a certain way. And I remember thinking to myself, like, interesting, because when we went and saw that initial financial advisor, they were talking to Adam. They weren't talking to me the whole time. And when I look at sort of investing images and products and your typical stock market, it's just a bunch of white males and suits with a token female in there. So there's this, like, interesting. That's not my experience in reality, but I have such a small sample size that it's easy for all of us to think that, like, oh, maybe this is just me, or maybe this isn't the norm, but it's true. I mean, the statistic that this article that were kind of really piqued Annie and I's interest here is that among married women, 30% more of them were making financial and investment decisions in 2020 compared to just five years earlier. A 30% increase in just five years as of recently. And that's a statistic that points to that women are taking on the reins of making the financial decisions in their families and married couples, at least.
Annie [8:55 - 8:55]: Yeah.
Susan [8:55 - 9:01]: And what about you? Did you always feel like a CFO boss, or is it just recently?
Annie [9:02 - 11:56]: Definitely not. Definitely the opposite of that situation. I grew up learning to save. My parents taught me to save. That was really the key lesson. If I can master just that one thing, they were like, yep, you've got the whole money game. So when I got married, my husband knew more about money and finances at that time than I did. I was totally fine with that. I was like, I don't even care to learn. I think partly because I was intimidated by it, and there was just so much other things I wanted to focus on in my young adult life, like climbing the corporate ladder, thinking about having kids and buying a house. Things like that were more on my mind. The money at that time, at least, it was a tool to get to some of those things. But I wasnt really thinking about long term, or I wasnt thinking that it would be possible to retire early. I was just like, let me just try to create a comfortable situation here while checking off some of my life goals. And money was always in the background. But I had a similar experience where we went to talk to financial advisor, and I'm like, hello, I'm over here, too. I'm in the room is it just the two of you guys, or do I get to make any decisions? And there were some things that I didn't fully understand, but I also didn't feel very comfortable in that environment. When it seemed like kind of a bro environment, I didn't feel comfortable to ask those questions, so I just kind of nodded, and I. And I was like, yep, yep, okay. Then later, we got home, and I'd ask my husband all the questions, so that was definitely more my experience. But, gosh, it feels so good to know, one, that this is happening, that more women are taking control, women are making more money than ever before. There are more women in the workforce. There are more women starting businesses, and, in general, just out in the world. And so it's very exciting to see that. And I don't know what the word for it is, but I guess it normalizes my experience to know that I'm not alone in sitting in that room with a financial advisor and feeling like, ugh, I don't belong here. I'm out of my league. I shouldn't be here. But knowing that, it's not me. The system was not designed for people like me, and thankfully, it's changing now. People are learning more how to connect with women and to advise women to support women as they take more control of their finances. But it just helps to know that, oh, thank goodness. There wasn't something wrong with me that I didn't know the answers to all those questions, or I didn't feel like I belonged in that room.
Susan [11:56 - 13:59]: Absolutely. It's like there's some catching up to do. Like, all of a sudden, women are becoming leaders in the home in terms of finances, whether they make more, they manage it. They are the ones who decide. I ignored it for a while, too. I was a saver, which means I didn't accrue a lot of debt, thankfully. But I did not understand investing. I mean, I had even a vague sense of budgeting. I definitely got surprise expenses, like yearly stuff that I just couldn't plan for very well. And I got to a breaking point, speaking of my little anxiety center. And my imagination went haywire. I mean, it was like financial anxiety took over that anxiety center. It was like all the little minions were like, oh, money. She really likes these money anxiety projections. Which ones can we do? Can we say, like, she loses everything? Can we say that she needs her parents again? Can we say she has to move home? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Show that one. Show that one. I, like, took things over at that point where I think that was my nature of, we've got to take this and run with it and have a plan and invest. And so I think that's how I stepped into that role. But yeah, as more women are continuing to step into this role, the industry has to, like, step up to help us in different ways. And I just love that there is this acknowledgement of we can look at money investing and finances differently. And maybe it's sort of the feminine side of our brain. Maybe it's a masculine side of our brain that has been dominating it before. And I say that specifically because it's not just a gender thing, too. I think there's probably a lot of men out there who don't see money and finances the same way as other men because maybe they look at it through a different lens that maybe would categorize as feminine. For example, looking at the emotions behind investing and how that drives our behavior and our behavior drives our actions, and our actions drive the results. So if we're ignoring the emotion side of it, that was like taking a huge piece of that puzzle away. And it may not have fit together for people in the past, and certainly for a lot of women, I think they need to understand those elements of money. And supposedly this is going to get easier for all of us.
Annie [14:00 - 16:24]: I certainly hope so. I think you're absolutely right. I mean, different strokes for different folks, right? Everybody learns differently. But I think that's the exciting part of where we are now. I mean, look at us talking about money and emotions on a podcast. Here we are in our home studios recording this, and anybody in the world could find it and listen to it. And if it resonates with them, then they could start to learn about money and finances with us. They can go back and listen to previous episodes. They can follow along as we have more conversations. This type of medium wasn't available 1015, 2050 years ago for people to learn. The only options back then were you go into a financial institution like a bank, where everybody's dressed up in a suit and there's these closed doors offices, and you go in and it's very sterile, and you sit in a chair, your husband sits in a chair, and you sit across from somebody on a computer, and it's a very sterile environment, and it's not very comfortable. You're very intimidated. Whereas with something like this or an online course or a blog or a video, you can listen to it while you're folding your laundry, while you're making lunch for your kids. And that's how I learned about real estate. Investing was. I listened to a lot of podcasts, and it was a lot of male voices at the time especially. But I found that it was something I had never had before, because prior, when I was trying to learn about real estate investing, I was doing it through books and maybe occasionally I'd try a course or something, but it just never hit home with me until I started listening to these casual podcast conversations where I heard people talking about it in ways that made sense to me. And because it was so many different voices and different perspectives, my brain could start to piece them together in a way that made sense for me. And I think that's what's so exciting about where we are, is that women are so poised to take control, take over, and to make this transition. And there's more resources and support now for women than there ever has been before. And you can really choose exactly what your learning journey will look like.
Susan [16:25 - 17:41]: You touched upon a couple of things that are these elements of what women need in the financial world? Community and building confidence are two of those. I think about the podcast formatting, and it does feel like a little bit more of a community. We're here with you, the listener, to be able to help you interpret your own feelings and behavior around money and life, because we are connecting those two. So you're able to find people and really get to know them for us. You can come onto our website, you can actually join us in person for meetups each week to be able to talk to people in a really casual atmosphere. There's ways that you can find community that are like, more approachable than sitting in your financial advisor's office, for instance. And then this, like, building confidence, these little tiny drip feeds of education. And not just the very financially minded education, but all encompassing of, like, how we are with money, how our behaviors, even like our past, our childhood exposure to money, and how that is impacting our current finances and our scenario. There's just so much learning out there. And those are two of the many things that experts have said that women need more of, to be able to have the confidence to move into positions of controlling more finances and to move into that.
Annie [17:41 - 19:39]: Yeah, I mean, it used to be the person who had the education, who knew the financial wisdom and had that knowledge. They were the holders of the power. They sat on their ivory throne, and you had to go to them and you had to ask them to get the key to the financial success in your life. And that's no longer the case. There's knowledge, wisdom, and advice all over the place. The hard part is now sifting through that to find the people that you can most relate with and who resonate best with you. But the information is out there. And so in many ways, the power has shifted. It's no longer with that one person who holds all the power and the wisdom, but it's in your own fingertips, and it's really you taking the time to go and find the information. So every time I'd walk the dog, I'd be listening to real estate podcasts. At first, I didn't have that community around me. I was really only listening to the podcast. So it was really only one way. It was just inbound. I wasn't going outbound with any of my information and talking to people about it, but it gave me this incubation period where I was just processing and processing this information, and it was circling around in my head, and I was making more and more sense of it. So by the time that I went to my first real estate conference, I felt pretty confident that I knew more or less the questions to ask and how to talk about what I wanted to talk about. So I think for women, especially when you might be feeling that fear or the guilt and the shame about maybe not doing more with your money sooner, you know, having the power to educate yourself and then go out and ask those questions and make those meaningful decisions and take those actions, I think it makes all the difference.
Susan [19:40 - 22:06]: And it makes me think of that's actually probably one of the reasons why this transition is happening, is because of the change in media, the change in education formats that's happened even since 2020, where all of a sudden we're doing more online. And the rise of podcasts, for instance, the rise of spreading out that knowledge, that ability to share and educate, like you said, it does bring its own challenges of sifting through it all. But that, I think, is empowering more women to be able to say, I think I know more or I'm able to learn more. I'm able to educate myself in the ways that feel good to me, you know, or answering my own questions. Another element that was cited that women need more of is just honest conversations about the emotions around in finance and investing. And we've said that already. But the fear, the shame, the guilt, the anxiety, our little anxiety control centers, and figuring out those stories that are being told so that you can break them down and say, oh, that's just in my imagination center. That's not part of fact or truth about who I actually am and my identity. And I think being able to connect all of that back to money. It's no longer a separate thing, is, I think, part of the reason why we're seeing the confidence increase where women can say, like, yeah, I'm going to make more money. I'm going to buy that house. Among solo households, more women own homes than men right now, which is incredible. So, like, real estate investing is becoming more confident for women. It's an exciting space to be in, and I love that this article brought this home. And this is something I heard from my early days of investing in real estate because I was attracted to the female thought leaders. I was attracted to you and Julie, for instance, in the beginning when I started learning about real estate investing and this podcast. But they say that women controlling more cash might just change the world. And I think about that as kind of my grounding, just like what we do with our money and how we think about the impact we want to have on our families and our communities. And not to say that men don't have these same thoughts and things, but I think just by the maternal nature, especially of being a mother for me and caring for the survival of a young new human into this world and wanting them to be able to have what they need to be able to confidently move forward all of these things, like, it makes me want to think about where I'm putting my money and maybe a little bit differently. And I think that's the change that they're referring to. Annie, what would you kind of think about how this shift is impacting kind of globally, if women controlled more of the capital in the world?
Annie [22:07 - 24:52]: Yeah, I think you're spot on that there's so much more community. Studies have shown time and again, when women learn a new skill, they change and transform an entire community, because then they go and they teach it to their kids, they teach it to their spouse, they teach it to their friends, and suddenly you have this natural wave of change because women always love to share. So that's a huge one, I think, bringing money out into the open, talking about it and not making it so taboo. I mean, I'm a money professional. Like, this is what I do. I do finances and real estate investing. And even when I get together with my friends, I feel a little awkward bringing in the money into the conversation. So I know if I'm feeling that way, everybody else must be feeling that way, too. So I think this transition, this wave will start to bring money into the light a little bit more, rather than in the dark corners where it's been for so many generations. But bringing it out into the open a little bit more, and that makes it not so scary of a topic. And it also makes us all feel a little bit less alone in the money worries and the money stresses that we may be experiencing. And I think that makes a huge difference on an emotional and a spiritual level. You know, as they say, money doesn't change who you are, it amplifies who you are. I know so many women who have this just hunger for impact, and they want to make a difference in the lives of their families, their kids, but also their communities. And I think the more that we can empower women with that financial education and equip them to take these actions, the more that it's going to have that ripple effect. And it reminded me of one exercise I want to leave the listener with. This is not from inside out, but this is something that I learned many years ago, actually from a podcast at a critical juncture when I was making a big decision in my life. And you can use this exercise for anything, especially if it relates to something you're feeling anxious about or fearful about or unsure about. It can be something as small as wanting to buy something that you're not sure if you should spend the money on, or buying that house something bigger, or making that first investment, something that can be very scary. And so the basic premise is you're going to take a sheet of paper, and it has to be a sheet of paper. Okay? Don't just do this in your head, because these things are swimming in your head all the time.
Susan [24:52 - 24:54]: What about my notes app?
Annie [24:54 - 25:03]: That could work as long as you're getting it out of your head and into something that you're looking at. Okay, fine, I'll take notes app or Google Doc, something like that.
Susan [25:03 - 25:05]: It's about writing down sometimes paper.
Annie [25:06 - 28:11]: Yes, take your paper, whether physical or virtual, you're going to divide it into three parts, and the three parts are going to be fears, opportunities, and strengths. So let's say, for example, you're feeling anxious about making your first investment. First you're going to list all your fears. Those are going to come easy. That's from the anxiety projections that you're probably already running in your head. So you're like, oh, my gosh, I could lose money. I could look like an idiot. My husband could get mad at me, or I could lose my kids college savings. I might have to move back home with my parents. All these things that you're probably already thinking, just write them down, type them down, jot them down, and then you've got your list of fears. Often what happens when you do this exercise is because those fears are so huge in your head. When you write them down in paper, it makes them much more manageable because you're like, oh, is that really it? That's what I'm scared of. But then you don't stop there, because fears is only the first part. The next is opportunities. So then you put the fears aside, you turn off the projector for a second, and you say, okay, but if I do this thing, if I make this first investment, what are the possibilities? What could this open up for me? This is where joy comes in and takes over it, and she starts to say, oh, these are all the amazing things that could happen in your life. This might be the first in a whole series of investments that you can make. This could put you on the path to retiring early. This could help you triple your kids college savings. This could help you buy more houses or move to that place that you've always wanted to live in. All these possibilities that have been squashed because your fear projections have been so huge in your mind. So that's the opportunities. That's the second part and then the third part. This part is the part where you focus on you. And because a big part of making your first investment, yeah, it's about the money, but really it's about investing in you, yourself, your own possibilities, your own skill set, your own knowledge, your own wisdom. So that third part is listing out your strengths and reminding yourself why you are so capable of doing this thing. I'm pretty good with numbers, or I always do my due diligence before I get into something. I always bounce back. Even when I fail, I believe in myself. All these strengths that are hard to remember when you're scared of something. But this is why you're dividing it into three equal sections. Because then you look at that paper and you say, okay, I have these fears. I acknowledge them. But guess what? Look at all these opportunities that I have. If I get outside of my comfort zone and I try this thing, and here's why I believe in myself, why I think I can do this. By doing this, you really equip yourself to take action, whereas if it continues to swirl in your head, you might be stuck in that analysis. Paralysis.
Susan [28:11 - 28:41]: Wow. I like that a lot. I think each of those three categories is helping you debunk the first one a bit. And it's almost in the frame of at least what I need. I need to know. Like, oh, no, I got this. I'm good at this. I've done my analysis here. It's like that confidence piece to remind yourself of all of that. It's essential to think about that as you make big financial decisions, even little financial decisions, and remembering the full picture and not just zooming in on those projections.
Annie [28:41 - 29:19]: Exactly. I like that a lot with that for the listener, know that we are so excited to hear about your journeys to be here with you as you are learning, as you are growing, whether you are investing for the first time, whether you're creating a budget and starting with those basic foundation building blocks, or maybe you're a savvy investor, you've been doing this for many years, but you're looking to build more community, build more confidence, and get into even deeper, bigger things and to expand your impact. We're excited to be here with you every step of the way.
Susan [29:19 - 29:55]: And if you have a story where you've overcome some money anxiety, maybe you're a female, maybe you're a male, but you've just seen how you can look at things holistically like this and how that's given you confidence. We would love to hear your story. We'd love to share it with the listeners. You can send us an email at podcast at good egg investments.com. you can either type it out in the email or record something quick on your phone, a voice recording, and let us know and send it that way. It's always really helpful for all of us. Again, that community aspect is huge when we can hear that other people are doing these kinds of things too. So send us an email. Again, that's podcast at good egg investments.com.
Annie [29:55 - 31:21]: And don't forget, if you are looking for a community as you are on your learning journey and taking the reins on your own finances and investing, we are here with you every step of the way. The best way to get connected with us and our community is to join the Good Egg Investor club. It's free and it's open to all of you, whether you are an accredited investor or not. And that's something we'll teach you all about inside the community as well. You can just go to good egg investments.com invest. And by the way, on the next episode of the Life and Money show, we're going to be talking about a very, very interesting phenomenon called hi fi. H I f I. It stands for high income, financially insecure. Seems like an oxymoron, somebody who's got a lot of money. But why would they be financially in secure? And we're going to tease that apart. It's tied together with exactly what we've talked about here with wealth transfer and all the emotions, all the things going on in our heads around money. So tune in next time for more with us on the Life and money show. The show all about helping you to create a meaningful and intentional life by design. And remember that your financial, the financial journey is a lifelong adventure. And we're here with you every step of the way. Thanks for listening.